It's time we face the facts, gentlemen

Kinja'd!!! "RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
07/06/2016 at 17:26 • Filed to: None

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All Thunderbirds after the first generation are crypto-Lincolns. Let’s review:

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In ‘58, the Thunderbird moved to the new Wixom Assembly Plant, established for building Lincolns. That alone is suggestive, but this also coincided with an increase in the Thunderbird’s size, a jump in seating capacity, and a flip to a unibody platform - just like its contemporary Lincolns. Coincidentally, Lincoln had abandoned its two platform pleb and Continental strategy and was now offering only one platform in different trims for Continental and Lincoln. Which made a market space for Thunderbird to fill - no more Lincoln Cosmopolitan or anything else. Much of the styling coincides equally well with Lincoln models as Fords at this point - squared off landau styled top, “suggested fender” body relief lines, slab sides, etc. In fact, the ‘58 Thunderbird probably informed the conservatizing of the ‘58 Lincoln’s design to incorporate these features in a less silly way in ‘59/’60:

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After this point, the Lincoln lineup got way less silly. The ‘61, which everybody likes, hit the scene - everybody’s favorite Elwood Engel design:

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Effectively, it took the raised line tailfin of the previous Lincoln and wedded it to what was mostly a Thunderbird concept of the time... which underwent parallel development into the actual Thunderbird, with more Thunderbirdey proportions.

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Yeah, I don’t think this bears much further argument. The ‘Bird is a fast, slab-sided mini-Lincoln. By ‘65 there was some divergence, as the Thunderbird got a new generation and the Lincoln... not so much.

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And yet, some weird things sneaked in here. Tailfins at the Lincoln line-break point, times 4? A hint of the Lincoln Futura concept that started a lot of this. The tail, meanwhile, wasn’t diverging so much as regressing.

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A chrome lozenge butt which is confused whether it belongs on a Mustang, a ‘58, or what...

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So where did that ‘64 Lincoln go? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has more detail - suffice to say it was somewhat Thunderbirdy. Coincidentally, the link explains where this very next Thunderbird partly came from - that exact concept and its blotter paper:

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So, while Lincoln missed two generations, Lincoln design language was over to play at Thunderbird’s house. This design then briefly ran away from home and pretended to be a Pontiac or something, with the existing bodywork in disguise.

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Meanwhile, the ‘61 Lincoln design became a stone too impossible to wring for blood anymore, so the new Lincoln came out, looking like the ‘70 ‘Bird’s sullen dad.

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...shortly after which, the ‘Bird fell in line and became The Same Exact Car Only Smaller.

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From this point out, there are a lot of sub-varieties of Thunderbird, some straying further (late ‘80s), some straying closer to the Lincoln of the time, but nearly always having a close correspondence in styling - until we get into the ‘90s.

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Even the Thunderbirds on the Fox platform hew close to Fox Lincolns at times.

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Finally, the 90s happened, wild restyling of the Thunderbird broke its connections to Lincoln and to the majority of T-birds past... visually. Dobby Thunderbird is free!

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Except... Thunderbird? You’re still using a brand-unique sub-marque style badge. Like Continental did . You really think you’re free - on a new mid-luxury MN-12 platform with independent suspension and a smooth ride? You’re still in Wixom. That’s a nice platfom - it’d be a shame if something were to Mark-en to it.

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Does making a Lincoln out of something retroactively make it a Lincoln? If not, I don’t care. Through this all, we have been told that a Thunderbird is a “Personal Luxury Coupe(/sedan/etc.)”. That’s a really odd way to pronounce “only not a Lincoln because of reasons”.

Then, of course, the NuThunderbird is a Lincoln LS with a you’re not fooling anybody body on.

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In summary, Make Thunderbird Lincoln Again #Hupp2016


DISCUSSION (33)


Kinja'd!!! Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:35

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Good stuff; nice work, Oppo! That first one, the white one, is a behemoth . And the 77-79 seventh generation Thunderbird is an abomination.


Kinja'd!!! LongbowMkII > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:39

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Urgh early 60's thunderbirds are so sweet.


Kinja'd!!! Your boy, BJR > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:40

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Kinja'd!!! Urambo Tauro > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:41

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In summary, Make Thunderbird Lincoln Again

No, make Thunderbird FordVette again! I think it’s a shame that they stopped trying to compete with the Corvette after the first-gen ’Bird.


Kinja'd!!! Flies With Thunderbirds > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:41

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Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’ll still take a Thunderbird of a Lincoln any day of the week though.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
07/06/2016 at 17:43

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And yet, the seventh gen is smaller than the sixth gen. Moving to the LTD II platform and *shrinking* sounds crazy, but it’s true. Also, even with its appallingly mis-styled roof, it was lurching toward the older landau styling in some points just as it lurched away. If they’d only had wraparound glass and a “floating” top panel instead it might have been considered a hallmark design decision.

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Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Urambo Tauro
07/06/2016 at 17:46

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I think the lesson to be learned is that once you’ve been making a car a crypto-Lincoln for 40 years, abruptly trying to pretend it’s a FordVette while still making a crypto-Lincoln is the height of dumb. A competent crypto-Lincoln is better than that.


Kinja'd!!! Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:47

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Like Tchevy did with the Caprice those years?


Kinja'd!!! Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:48

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This is really cool.


Kinja'd!!! Flies With Thunderbirds > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:49

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Ford couldn’t make the Thunderbird a Vette competitor because they can’t take sales from the mustang. Even the turbo coupe had the same engine as the SVO mustang just drained with a smaller turbo because Ford was afraid it would be faster.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Flies With Thunderbirds
07/06/2016 at 17:50

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It all makes sense if you consider Thunderbird to be a mini-marque that by all rights should have been in the Lincoln stable instead of the Ford one. Still a mini-marque with some of its own distinctives, but with so much design synchronization for 30+ years, “it’s a Ford that just happens to be made by Lincoln and look like a Lincoln okay” is not any *more* silly than “JUST PUT THE FOUR-POINTED STAR ON IT ALREADY”.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
07/06/2016 at 17:52

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Either that, or the Toronado of those years:

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Kinja'd!!! Flies With Thunderbirds > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:53

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This wouldn’t look nearly as sweet with a four point star on it though.


Kinja'd!!! Urambo Tauro > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 17:58

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Good point. In retrospect, even the Corvette’s design language wasn’t really nailed down until the third generation. But I guess that needed to happen, for Corvette to double-down on being a real sports car.

Perhaps the Thunderbird has too much history to go back to its intended form, and even if Ford wanted to, it would be difficult to settle on a design that was recognizable as a ’Bird, yet aerodynamic enough to be competitive. The closest it ever got to having a sleek shape was probably the tenth-gen MN12.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Flies With Thunderbirds
07/06/2016 at 17:59

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True. You know what ends up really weird with all of this? The most hated Lincoln for a generation (the ‘58-60) ended up generating the one styling feature which for many of these years was the only real and obvious distinctive - the mid-rear-door raised “tailfin” in the top of the slab. It only finally petered out on the Lincoln Versailles in ‘80.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Urambo Tauro
07/06/2016 at 18:03

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The MN12 was the closest to re-attaining performance car recognition, but it was closer (in that regard) to the ‘60s T-birds. Personal luxury *performance* car - still not FordVette because you can bring some of the family along. With the ‘00 Thunderbird they tried to split the difference between FordVette and Personal Luxury Car and come up with a FordJag - which didn’t quite work.


Kinja'd!!! Flies With Thunderbirds > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 18:08

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The Thunderbird is an iconic car. Even through the Ugly Years, a Thunderbird can easily be picked out of a crowd


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Flies With Thunderbirds
07/06/2016 at 18:17

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My personal favorite is the third gen. Even with all the weirdnesses of the second gen, I like them, but think their attempt at matching the ‘58-’60 Ford fullsize corporate face goes off half-cocked. I like the ‘67 coke-bottle more than most people, but I certainly recognize it’s kind of a mutant orphan, like the ‘77-’79.


Kinja'd!!! Flies With Thunderbirds > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 18:20

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First generation excluded, my favorite is the ‘88 turbo coupe, a turbo 2.3 is really appealing to me. That would quickly be followed by a 4 door ‘69. If we are counting the first gen, 1956 with a 355 and a Ford-O-Matic is my personal dream car.


Kinja'd!!! Brian, The Life of > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 18:33

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I used to not be a fan of the SquareBird but now I really, really want to turn one into a rat rod.


Kinja'd!!! ranwhenparked > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 18:36

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Well, the Thunderbird was, throughout its existence, supposed to be the top range Ford (in either fact or theory) and, as a personal luxury car, was essentially a luxury model without a luxury brand. Styling it after the Lincolns was an easy way to make it look more upscale and send the message that it was different from your ordinary Ford.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ranwhenparked
07/06/2016 at 18:38

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HOW DARE YOU DESCRIBE EVERYTHING I WROTE LOGICALLY IN TWO SENTENCES. But seriously, while the “why” is pretty straightforward, it’s kind of fun to look at just how carried away with that they got at times. By which I mean all the time, and consistently.


Kinja'd!!! ranwhenparked > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 18:51

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Yeah, you rarely see the two compared side by side like that for each generation. Ford did stick with the baby Lincoln look pretty consistently for longer than most people probably assume.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ranwhenparked
07/06/2016 at 19:04

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...and it goes back way further than people realize.


Kinja'd!!! RallyWrench > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 19:42

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I really want a Lincoln MkVII, and have for a long time. Now I want a MkVII with Thunderbird badges. It would be so perfectly fitting, and only total dorks would raise an approving eyebrow. I mean, look at the thing! That’s a goddamned Thunderbird if ever there was one.

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Also, I never registered the similarities between the ‘61 Conti and the subsequent ‘Bird. Hmmmmmmm.


Kinja'd!!! JR1 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 19:51

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This has been simmering in your brain all day hasn’t it? I particularly like the observation about the Thunderbird design progressing through the 60s while Lincoln refused to kill an icon. What I have always found most interesting is the coach door Thunderbird. Talk about a baby Lincoln. That is absolute proof Ford wanted Thunderbird shoppers to graduate to a Lincoln. Yet the coach door Thunderbird never gets the love of the Linccoln


Kinja'd!!! Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/06/2016 at 22:35

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Be an expensive glass to replace.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RallyWrench
07/07/2016 at 09:08

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The question is, do you swap it to MN12 rear suspension, or Mustang Cobra IRS? Either would be possible. The other other question is whether you try to get one with a BMW diesel or go full retard and swap the 5.0 for something bigger *and* more powerful... or supercharged.


Kinja'd!!! RallyWrench > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/07/2016 at 12:14

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Doesn’t the Cobra rear suspension have some flex issues? I remember reading that a good stick axle might actually have been better for the car, although with Maximum Motorsports 2 miles away for me any problems can be fixed. The T-bird setup might be closer to fitting in the MkVII, you’d probably have to flare the arches to fit the Mustang setup with proper wheels, they’re pretty wide in back. I mean, not that flaring the arches on a Lincoln is a bad thing... That BMW diesel isn’t really very good, and parts are getting really hard to find. They’re better as crankshaft donors to hot-rod 327i builds. I really like the 5.0, so I’d probably just do GT40 heads and intake plus headers until I could throw some turbos on it, then build a 347 when it blows up. Unless I could find a GT350R engine, which is The One.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RallyWrench
07/07/2016 at 12:18

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The Cobra rear suspension has rubber that is too soft, which dies very fast. Not hard to fix, but most people didn’t bother. It was designed to as well as fit the SN-95 be able to be installed in older Stangs as well as Foxes, so it would probably be an easy fit up. I like the MN12 setup, but I don’t know how close it is to a bolt-up on older Fox subframes. 5.0 sounds pretty good, honestly. Though a super is more appropriate than a turbo for a Thunderbird in some respects...


Kinja'd!!! RallyWrench > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/07/2016 at 13:03

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The Cobra stuff would probably be best then, considering aftermarket support. Hard to argue with a blown 5.0, plus then I could use the badges. I need the stinking badges. I just like the idea of antilag in an old Lincoln. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisitio n machine gun fire spitting Lincoln.


Kinja'd!!! RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RallyWrench
07/07/2016 at 13:39

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I did a lot of looking at IRS systems when planning the setup on the Ranchero. If you look at the Cobra setup, it’s expressly designed to be a bolt-in to the leaf spring setup + weld coil saddles and done.

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Wasn’t going to work that well for me, due to not having very practical means with a bed of putting in the shock points (forward of the axle on Falcon) and engineering spring saddles, but I absolutely could have done it, and sticking it in a Mark VII *cannot* be that hard. Even if the leaf brackets are in a different place - all you’d need to do would be extend the tubes on the subframe. $15 of tubing and an hour with a sawzall and a welder.


Kinja'd!!! RallyWrench > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
07/07/2016 at 13:58

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I’ll add that to the official project list after the Rancho, then. It’s almost too easy.